Comments on: BASICS: dilution 稀释 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/ 邵亦波的blog：创业与创投之间 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:47:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Bo’s Blog 邵博客 » BASICS: valuation 公司估价 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-223 Bo’s Blog 邵博客 » BASICS: valuation 公司估价 Sun, 08 Apr 2007 09:33:01 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-223 [...] 看起来很简单，但是我在下一篇用股份数量计算后，发现这里算错了！正确的算法是： Founders, employees, and angel investors own: 6/9 = 66.7% Founders and angel investors own: 66.7% = 20% = 46.7% Founders own: 46.7% * (1.5/1.7) = 41% [...] […] 看起来很简单，但是我在下一篇用股份数量计算后，发现这里算错了！正确的算法是： Founders, employees, and angel investors own: 6/9 = 66.7% Founders and angel investors own: 66.7% = 20% = 46.7% Founders own: 46.7% * (1.5/1.7) = 41% […]

]]> By: AD http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-226 AD Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:14:16 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-226 Bo, got some questions to ask you. Consider the following case: Current situation - an angel investor backed startup - seed round $1M - using Convertible Note for seed fund raising - Anthorized 10M shares in total - current share structure: Founders 3M, Option pool 3M, Un-issued 4M - the three co-founders are now and will be the only Board Directors in the next twelve months Going forward - expect major milestone within next nine months - plan to raise A round [say, $4M] twelve months later Questions - generally speaking, how do you think about the share structure, from the founders' point of view? - can the founders use the 4M Un-issued shares to increase the portion of Founders' share before A-round? Or would you suggest to increase Founders' share now? I know it's hard to provide comments just based on above information. But please try your best :-) Good night in Hong Kong! Bo, got some questions to ask you. Consider the following case:

Current situation
- an angel investor backed startup
- seed round $1M
- using Convertible Note for seed fund raising
- Anthorized 10M shares in total
- current share structure: Founders 3M, Option pool 3M, Un-issued 4M
- the three co-founders are now and will be the only Board Directors in the next twelve months

Going forward
- expect major milestone within next nine months
- plan to raise A round [say, $4M] twelve months later

Questions
- generally speaking, how do you think about the share structure, from the founders’ point of view?
- can the founders use the 4M Un-issued shares to increase the portion of Founders’ share before A-round? Or would you suggest to increase Founders’ share now?

I know it’s hard to provide comments just based on above information. But please try your best :-)

Good night in Hong Kong!

]]> By: JD http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-228 JD Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:34:28 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-228 亦波，能不能说说，VC 一般是怎样对 Start-up 做 Pre-money 估价的，你的例子用的是$1,500,000（美金是吧？），这个数字怎么估算出来的，双方是怎么样通过一个公平的机制来达成共识的？ 谢谢。 亦波，能不能说说，VC 一般是怎样对 Start-up 做 Pre-money 估价的，你的例子用的是$1,500,000（美金是吧？），这个数字怎么估算出来的，双方是怎么样通过一个公平的机制来达成共识的？

谢谢。

]]> By: 草根网 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-232 草根网 Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:25:44 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-232 好文，收藏至20ju.com 好文，收藏至20ju.com

]]> By: Leon http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-233 Leon Tue, 10 Apr 2007 01:48:05 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-233 该文对创业者的价值极高，据我了解国内目前很多创业者都对融资问题很头痛，第一个原因就是创业者多数出自技术工程师，对融资领域知之甚少，Bo给我们提供了很好的入门教材，拜谢，慢慢研习之。 该文对创业者的价值极高，据我了解国内目前很多创业者都对融资问题很头痛，第一个原因就是创业者多数出自技术工程师，对融资领域知之甚少，Bo给我们提供了很好的入门教材，拜谢，慢慢研习之。

]]> By: iPhoneCard http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-238 iPhoneCard Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:06:23 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-238 Thanks Bo, your article rocks, could you explain more about how to in touch with VC for the startups? thanks Thanks Bo, your article rocks, could you explain more about how to in touch with VC for the startups? thanks

]]> By: leshou http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-239 leshou Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:22:46 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-239 易趣没能上市实在是很可惜的事情。希望babytree会有一个好的未来 易趣没能上市实在是很可惜的事情。希望babytree会有一个好的未来

]]> By: spread http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-243 spread Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:36:45 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-243 好文 好文

]]> By: Leo Wang http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-244 Leo Wang Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:28:22 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-244 Hi Bo 可能是你在计算的时候使用了四舍五入法，所以后面的数据有点对应不上，差别在1000股左右，不过整个计算方式确实让我学习了，非常感谢:-) Leo Wang http://betashow.blogbus.com Hi Bo

可能是你在计算的时候使用了四舍五入法，所以后面的数据有点对应不上，差别在1000股左右，不过整个计算方式确实让我学习了，非常感谢:-)

Leo Wang
http://betashow.blogbus.com

]]> By: Bo http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-249 Bo Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:51:53 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-249 To AD: since founders own all equity, the # of shares actually does not matter. i would increase the number of shares though, for reasons i described in the article. the option pool seems to be quite large. ok if you think you need to search for another founder or two. To AD: since founders own all equity, the # of shares actually does not matter. i would increase the number of shares though, for reasons i described in the article.

the option pool seems to be quite large. ok if you think you need to search for another founder or two.

]]> By: Jeff Wang http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-286 Jeff Wang Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:19:18 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-286 亦波，我和JD有类似的问题 在第一轮天使融资的时候如何对我们的初创公司进行估价？ 亦波，我和JD有类似的问题
在第一轮天使融资的时候如何对我们的初创公司进行估价？

]]> By: zhaoinfo http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-549 zhaoinfo Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:54:28 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-549 We've got TV program called Dragons' Den in the UK which aims at promoting entrepreneurial spirit. Basically in the den there are five so called dragons who are business tycoons with combined assets in excess of a billion pounds. New entrepreneurs who have ideas to set up a start up or have already started the business but have handicaps in financing the company for future development can come to the den. They present ideas to dragons and answer questions regarding the presentation itself and potential growth of their companies. Then dragons will make a decision whether to barter or scarper based upon their own calcalations and results coming out of the interrogation. They always question about those entrepreneurs calculation of valuation of the company and appear to focus more on the company's current and future accounting numbers, such as ROI, cash flow, NPV, gearing etc and nature of the product instead of your culculation seemingly from founders' ambigious point of view. I reckon apart from your orthodoxical calculation and institutes' speculation, the future of a company either willing to conduct IPO or anticipating future financing is heavily affected by shareholders confidence on the listed company which can be related to numerous factors. Recent plunge of Chinese stock market, for instance, widely accepted by the West, was due to government's newly issued 200% jump of stamp tax imposed on shares traded in both markets. Whatever you have learned from txtbook or BCG can never be used in this regard, considering fiascos of Enron and LTCM. Last but not least how is a private company's valuation affected by its competitors' PE ratio? We’ve got TV program called Dragons’ Den in the UK which aims at promoting entrepreneurial spirit. Basically in the den there are five so called dragons who are business tycoons with combined assets in excess of a billion pounds. New entrepreneurs who have ideas to set up a start up or have already started the business but have handicaps in financing the company for future development can come to the den. They present ideas to dragons and answer questions regarding the presentation itself and potential growth of their companies. Then dragons will make a decision whether to barter or scarper based upon their own calcalations and results coming out of the interrogation. They always question about those entrepreneurs calculation of valuation of the company and appear to focus more on the company’s current and future accounting numbers, such as ROI, cash flow, NPV, gearing etc and nature of the product instead of your culculation seemingly from founders’ ambigious point of view.

I reckon apart from your orthodoxical calculation and institutes’ speculation, the future of a company either willing to conduct IPO or anticipating future financing is heavily affected by shareholders confidence on the listed company which can be related to numerous factors. Recent plunge of Chinese stock market, for instance, widely accepted by the West, was due to government’s newly issued 200% jump of stamp tax imposed on shares traded in both markets. Whatever you have learned from txtbook or BCG can never be used in this regard, considering fiascos of Enron and LTCM. Last but not least how is a private company’s valuation affected by its competitors’ PE ratio?

]]> By: Aiwen http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-2292 Aiwen Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:35:02 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-2292 这个对我们初次创业真的很有价值，谢谢亦波～！ ^_^ 这个对我们初次创业真的很有价值，谢谢亦波～！ ^_^

]]> By: Nian http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-2750 Nian Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:26:10 +0000 http://shaoblog.com/2007/04/08/dilution/#comment-2750 印象中，丁磊、张朝阳的股份比例很高，参考你上述的例子（最后创业团队是22%），是否就是因为他们公司升值越快，融资时稀释就越少，或者他们在融是融资数额少，稀释得相对少？ 印象中，丁磊、张朝阳的股份比例很高，参考你上述的例子（最后创业团队是22%），是否就是因为他们公司升值越快，融资时稀释就越少，或者他们在融是融资数额少，稀释得相对少？

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